tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post1116205758775980311..comments2023-04-09T05:54:18.997-04:00Comments on Learning Complexity: Complexity and Personal Learning Environmentskeith.hamonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08404376705918243534noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post-89559395539370200642010-10-11T21:15:11.331-04:002010-10-11T21:15:11.331-04:00It seems to me that we move in and out of social s...It seems to me that we move in and out of social space in a learning environment and that this social space is a combination of personal quiet space where reflection and your unique point of view cooks up something unique and special to offer back to the society that spawned the opportunity. The social dialogue and interaction refines your artifact and perspective through engagement and the quality of your interaction and attitude encourages the society to engage with you. Without the solitary reflection we don't have the independence of thought which prevents herd behavior; without the group dynamic we can easily wander off the trail or re-plow old ground without knowing. I see both elements as necessary to a quality learning environment/network.ken longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07022355413017381562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post-22642825046799724392010-10-10T13:45:37.840-04:002010-10-10T13:45:37.840-04:00LeRoy, you are correct that social media tools are...LeRoy, you are correct that <i>social media tools are forcing universities to rethink and reposition the way they operate</i>. This is similar to the way that social media tools have forced, for instance, businesses to rethink and reposition, but it is not as well researched. I think one could make a general argument that universities are one of the ultimate expressions of our tendency to fragment and reduce all of life into this discipline or that. <br><br>Many have noted this tendency over the years, but we have yet to find a language or structure to weigh against the overwhelming hierarchy of University (and don't forget that it's the University that pays many of our salaries and that has built much of the knowledge that we all share today).<br><br>I am not speaking against hierarchy, only against hierarchy as the ONLY reality. I'm looking for the rhizomatic structure that ingests the hierarchical University and extends it into … well, into the other rhizomes.<br><br>As I sense in the others in the conversation, I am hopeful that Connectivism and MOOCs are steps toward these larger, more complex heuristics.keith.hamonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08404376705918243534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post-18316561361637712952010-10-10T11:23:47.125-04:002010-10-10T11:23:47.125-04:00Interesting debate here. I think we can agree tha...Interesting debate here. I think we can agree that learning is too complex an activity to restrict to personal or collective and I like the way the blog post reflects and put it into perspective. I think though as Dave points to in his comments is the notion of role that universities should play in the future. I think social media tools are forcing universities to rethink and reposition the way they operate. This is what I think deserve some attention, thoughts anyone?LeRoy Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12475394819366106162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post-26959113263984027552010-10-10T11:21:22.598-04:002010-10-10T11:21:22.598-04:00wow... came back to make a link... and it was alre...wow... came back to make a link... and it was already trackbacked. internets are awesome.dave cormierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08373857608287753814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post-62966307438233341252010-10-10T11:10:47.696-04:002010-10-10T11:10:47.696-04:00Basicly I agree with you, Keith. And I would add s...Basicly I agree with you, Keith. And I would add some comments:<br><br>Learning is social. We all learn constantly (by interaction and direct observation or indirect) of the environment (which is complex), although we do not realize us until is produces a stimulous that has proven us that is it so.<br><br>The scientific theory has taught us to reduce the complexity of the environment, through the creation of interchangeable units that we have organized through the fragmentation of knowledge, re-organized and used in function of time, environment, and needs.<br><br>For the Connectivism (which brings together many of the principles of learning theories) this fragmentation is already part of the environment, so no need to refragmentation, only their adequate use it.<br><br>The way to extract the knowledge (PLE) is personal and no one can arrange for us because each one of us learns in their own way and depending on the circumstances.Dolors Capdethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10813202033394608578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post-90316191981268025122010-10-10T10:30:08.569-04:002010-10-10T10:30:08.569-04:00Rita, I think the "situated perspectives"...Rita, I think the "situated perspectives" that you reference are an important aspect of this conversation, but somewhat tangential to the point that I was trying to make, so they didn't come to mind as I was writing the post, as Alan seems to be suggesting. My point is that we should not ultimately reduce the complexity of reality to either basic particles and their predictable interactions or to a holistic soup. Reductionism, as Morin points out, does have temporary, sometimes practical benefits, but in the end, it blinds us to the richness of life. Life is not <i>either/or</i>; rather, life is this <i>and</i> this <i>and</i> this. (and please, don't take this as an adequate summary of Morin's thought, which is way more complex and rich than presented either in this comment or my original post).<br><br>A person can be a follower of Wenger or Vygotsky, for instance, and still be a reductionist in either of the two senses that Morin references and that I used in my original comments. I think, then, that I'm trying to make a point that precedes any given learning theory. Rather, I'm trying to inform learning theories with an appreciation of complexity.<br><br>Actually, I think that Dave Cormier probably believes somewhat the same as I about complexity. His problem with PLE/Ns is with the tendency by many to reduce a personal learning network to either end of the phrase: to the <i>personal</i> (mostly) or to the <i>network</i>. I share the same concern. I differed from Dave (in a good-natured kind of way) in my willingness to read the phrase <i>personal learning environment</i> in a different sense than he did.keith.hamonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08404376705918243534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post-768382474918516762010-10-10T09:35:34.443-04:002010-10-10T09:35:34.443-04:00Hey Alan,I'm still mulling over a focused resp...Hey Alan,<br><br>I'm still mulling over a focused response to this... but my objection may have been overstated in my original comments. What I'm warning against is the possible interpretation of 'Personal' as 'possessive' and the charge that 'we don't need universities anymore'. I'm not saying we necessarily do, but am suggesting that they aren't the same conversation. <br><br>In attempting to make a distinction between those two conversations, I may have overstated the ubiquity of that particular interpretation of personal. Maybe i'll try and write that post now.dave cormierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08373857608287753814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post-15784822702689514392010-10-09T02:23:57.325-04:002010-10-09T02:23:57.325-04:00Rita, why do you accuse Keith of having "miss...Rita, why do you accuse Keith of having "missed the stream of..."?<br>He didn't seem to me to be saying these things never happened - just saying that Dave's criticism of the P in PLE may be overstated because it is understood that they do happen.<br><br>Dave, I am commenting prematurely here because I haven't gone through your post which prompted this. But doesn't the inclusion of a PLN as part of the PLE (or vice versa?) go most of the way to addressing the charge of isolationism?Alan Cooperhttp://qpr.ca/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post-10794118709608515772010-10-08T11:22:28.620-04:002010-10-08T11:22:28.620-04:00Hi KeithI wholeheartedly agree with most of what y...Hi Keith<br><br>I wholeheartedly agree with most of what you are saying. You seem to have missed the stream of situated perspectives of learning that started in the 70s and continued in the 80s and 90s, though, such as community of practice, or social constructivism, which advocate exactly what you would like to see, a bridge between the personal learner and his/her lived-in world including other connections influential in the learning process.Ritahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05438620064096677907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4717220359532645973.post-46345697074754885252010-10-08T08:28:18.242-04:002010-10-08T08:28:18.242-04:00Thanks for taking the time to respond Keith... I&#...Thanks for taking the time to respond Keith... I'm going to take your comments off and return the favour. One first glance I think I see what you mean by I want to make sure... Should get a post back to you in a few days.<br><br>Will try to find a quiet place this weekend to piece through what you said here. cheers.dave cormierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08373857608287753814noreply@blogger.com